Was I willing to offer up the last of what I thought gave me happiness, that which brought fulfillment in my life?
Was I willing to let go of the only place I had ever called home?
When one is called by the Almighty God, He is careful to never take anything.
All God's choice positions are out of an offering- because Jesus offered Himself for us, God gave Him a Name above every Name.
When we are called God asks.
He doesn't command.
It is our obedience or lack thereof that determines our destiny.
Could I trust in a God I knew with my whole heart but had never seen?
Could I have faith that what I would offer up to Him would be restored?
This wasn't my birthed child, and I wasn't Abraham standing before the alter, preparing to sacrifice my promised son,
But, this was the life I had always dreamed of.
My desires to live in such a place and in such a way were planted there by my creator.
Could I have the faith of Abraham knowing that if God put these desires within me, and I gave them back, it would only be so that He could restore them greater than before?
Could I understand that maybe I had lived out a path in my life before its time? Or perhaps because I had lived out a dream God created for me absent of His Presence, He would want to live it all again, only this time WITH me?
We must remember, Jehovah is a Father first, creator second. He wants to walk and talk with us in that manner.
A Father hates to miss out on his child's life, their fondest and most joyful memories.
Sure my life was a complete mess at the time, but I would be lying if I didn't say I had fun. Granted without my Father's protection, I would have perished long before it all, I knew this for a fact.
Could it be, that if I could trust in His love for me and relinquish it all to Him, I would live it again?
Would I get to live the life I had always dreamed of, only in a way of grandeur, without the loneliness and heartaches and disappointments, without the depression and anger and resentments?
Our Father never wants to see us endure that which we do, but
when we go our way,
making our own decisions and
choosing our own path,
We leave our Father out of it.
We render Him powerless.
He may still protect us, but He cannot override our SELF will.
He cannot make our decisions for us.
And He will never take anything from us.
It is us who must make the offering.
But even after all He had done for me, all the different ways He had mercy on me and rescued me from situation after situation, I wasn't ready...
I thought I was.
But I wasn't.
I was too selfish.
Can you only imagine if Christ had decided the same?
If He decided to chose His own life over ours?
The decision caused him to sweat until he ruptured capillaries in his skin and bled through.
He's choice was made of His own will.
He laid it down and said,
Father, not my will but yours be done!"
I wouldn't even be here writing this today if he had not laid His own will down at the cross.
When we chose to make a sacrifice no matter how great or how small, we must sacrifice the one that will always hold us back.
Our SELF.
There is no sacrifice that was ever made out of a state of selfishness.
We must come to a true understanding of martyrdom.
It is not physically dying.
True martyrdom is emotionally and spiritually dying to our self.
It is choosing to lay self at the cross.
It is giving up our ideals, plans and desires for the ones of our Father.
It is choosing to give up the life we created for the one that was created for us.
It is choosing to love others more than we love our self.
A seed has to die first before it can bring forth new life.
We must do the same.
If we want to see different results in our life, we can't keep doing what we've always done.
If our life hasn't yielded all that we dreamed it would, then we are not living to our full potential.
And while none of us will have to sacrifice what Jesus did, we are each called to a specific purpose that ONLY we were created for.
We can never fulfill it without an offering.
A needed more time.
But winter was setting in. We'd just had our first snow of the season and I needed shelter.
I needed just a little more time.
I felt as if I was holding a lifeless corpse in my arms. It was being pulled from me, ready for burial but I just couldn't let go.
Not yet.
I wasn't ready.
That's when I received a phone call, just in time.
Really good stuff and so personal. You have such an inspiring gratitude. I really like the death/resurrection theology in this post. Its truly odd how God chooses such a crazy way to save us!
ReplyDeleteI find that one of the most profound things about Jesus' parables is the fact that he so often describes the kingdom by the automatic processes of plants: Seeds growing (the sower, etc.) vines and branches, trees and fruit. So yes, a seed "dies" before it grows, but it doesn't have to decide to die. It doesn't have to commit to dying. A tree doesn't have to decide to grow fruit (Matt 7:17). We love to turn the Bible's indicative's into imperatives. We turn statements into instructions.
The good news is that I don't think we can render him powerless. We don't have that power. The good news of the Gospel is that not only was our salvation accomplished by Jesus, so is our sanctification. He promises that his word will not return void (Isaiah 55:11) While we were yet sinners (without our sacrifice) Christ died for us (Rom 5:8) We need not make any more sacrifices (Hebrews 10). This is the hard word to swallow. Not that we are seeds that make decisions or fruit being better fruit. We are passive in God's saving equation and we don't want to hear it. We want to be seeds with wills and fruit that makes godly choices or pottery that corrects the potter. If we are to take Jesus seriously, lets not think that the God of the universe needs our permission to work in our lives. You won't find that in the Bible or the writings of the reformers that truly sacrificed for the protestant Christianity we hold dear. Instead you'll hear about a God who suffered once and for all- not so that we can live our "best life now"- but that all things might be redeemed through him.
And guess what...we can't get in the way of that.
That is the true depth of Christian freedom. Freedom from works as a means to justify oneself. Freedom from having to gain a key insight. Freedom from having to empty ourselves and create an environment to receive his blessing. Freedom from even having to feel free. THAT is deep grace. And, sadly, something we will fight against forever. We will fight against a theology that puts Christ, and not ourselves (our our prosperity) at the center of the universe.
Remember, Abraham wasn't saved by his sacrifice but by his faith. And we can't muster up faith. It is a gift.
And if my obedience or lack thereof determines my destiny then what can we say of the Apostle Peter, or Noah, or Mathew the tax collector, or Paul the persecutor of Christians. Or, David the murdering Adulterer or Barabbas! No, the biblical example is that God uses the worst of us for his purposes. God forbid our obedience in this life actually determined our destiny! According to the biblical example we either be beheaded, hung or become famous!
One of the most profound realizations I've had in my life is that God's grace is for Christians as much as for converts. If we heard this preached more often on Sundays, America wouldn't have nearly the mental health crisis that it has today.
Thank you for reading my blog and for your comments and insights.
ReplyDeleteGod's grace is so wonderful. Without it none of us would be here!
However, I believe quite differently. Yes, I believe God's grace allows us to live in freedom without condemnation and fears of failure. But we must NEVER use God's grace as an excuse for negligence or complacency. Through Grace we are saved and through Grace we are sanctified. But we have a will and we have a choice. I guess you believe in predestination - I DO NOT. Not in the way that we don't have a say in our lives. As I wrote today. Destiny does not happen TO us, but THROUGH us. If life were predestined absent of our free will, then that would mean God would be a puppet master and we the puppets. God is not a master but a Father.This would also give Christians a horrible excuse to never improve, grow or change. In this life we are called to be as Christ. We are to strive to be as close to His example as possible. If this were not so, we would never see "His kingdom come on this earth on this earth as it is in heaven." I believe the mental crisis comes into play when people believe they are helpless. That everything in their life is or was meant to happen. But again, that is leaving out the human's ability to reason, think and/or make decisions. Decisions have consequences, those consequences are not from God but rather our own decisions. If our lives were predestined without our will to choose, then why are we told to resist the devil? Why would Jesus have had to resist satan's temptations during the 40 day fast in the desert?
too long, had to cut it in half.
ReplyDeleteIf evil is part of God's plan, then why did Jesus say, I've come to heal the sick, blind and lame and I've come to set the captives freed? Jesus wouldn't come to work against His Father's predestined plan for all humans. No, sad to say, we get ourselves in the messes we are in, we make the wrong decisions and end up with the consequences.
When I speak of choosing to die, I am referring to dying to our self, our flesh, our mind, our own will, our own plans and actions and instead choosing to listen to God and the Holy Spirit who is our guide. Paul discusses this best in Romans 8. He is constantly in a struggle with his flesh and spirit. "Do not be deceived, God is not mocked. Whatsoever (His decisions) He soweth, that shall He also reap. A man who sows to the flesh (His own mind, will, plans) He will of the flesh reap corruption (He is out of God's perfect will.) But if He sows to the Spirit, He will of the Spirit reap life everlasting. This is ZOE!!!
Jesus said, "I only say what I hear my Father say and I only do what I see my Father do". Jesus died to self with every word spoken. He was accountable for his decisions.
When He was struggling in the Garden, He had a choice. He would not have sweated until He bled, if He was not struggling with the most difficult decision anyone has ever had to make.
He said, NOT my own will, but HIS (Father's) be done.
He was saying, he could not do as he wished, not because his Father was a puppeteer and he the puppet, but because he WILLINGLY laid down his desires for His Father's.
Instead of being taken captive, He said, "I give my self to you."
God gave us a free will to choose. Jesus made the ultimate choice.
When we lay our will down, It is THEN that God can really move us into the perfect will that He has planned out for us.
We would all love to be walking out our perfect will but it isn't a cake walk. It's hard work. It is Not striving to be saved, but rather choosing Spirit over flesh, God's will over ours. We will NEVER get there by walking through this life blind and ignorant to His voice. Every day brings another trial another temptation to follow our own will or the Father's.
Jesus overcame the world but it is not without trials. John 16:33
Yes, Praise God, He did overcome the world but it is us who must make decisions on how we will respond to the trouble and trials we will experience in a fallen world with an enemy who comes to steal, kill and destroy.
As we begin walking with Him in Spirit, then He can begin using us as vessels.
But WE must make that decision. It is us who has to stand before Him when He asks, "what did you do with the talents I gave you?"
"Why didn't you listen to me? Why didn't you lay down your own plans and ideas and choose mine? I had so much more for you. I had a plan with a hope and future and prosperity but you chose your own path full of disappointments and failures and dead end roads."
Yes, His Grace is sufficient for us and Yes, He is strong when we are weak, Yes, Jesus finished ALL this work on the cross and overcame the world but that is so that we can have eternal life, abundant life and in doing so, "our best life now." That is so we can reap the rewards of the cross - eternal life, but right now, healing, prosperity, joy, love, peace, wellbeing. He came to heal and set us the captives free.
We are in the world but not of it. This means we can choose to have a Kingdom life right here right now or not. Again, the choice is ours.
I really appreciate your thoughtful reply. And I respect your position while disagreeing. The main reason I think this discussion is important is that I know you have a heart to help people. That's very clear from your blog posts. And helping people totally depends on understanding human nature.
ReplyDeleteI do agree that our understanding of the human will is at the center of our disagreement. The emphasis on our choices and decisions is understood very differently in the history of Christianity, and, I would argue, in the Bible. So much is changed in our worldview based on whether we think we make independent autonomous "free" decisions versus seeing ourselves as a mix of competing inclinations.
Now, no one has ever convinced anyone that they don't have free will through argument. So I have no intention to try that here. But I will lay more specifically what I mean. And I'd like to know what you think, afterwards!
First of all, what I don't mean: I don't mean that that we are predetermined by set laws in the universe. Nor do I mean that God is a puppet master (this has long been the Armenian argument against Calvinism- which I am not trying to defend.) I think its a flawed analogy anyway since a puppet and puppeteer aren't the only ways to describe the relationship between passive and active roles in a relationship.
So what do I mean when I say we don't have "free will"? I am simply saying that our decisions and actions in life are largely determined or motivated by our hopes, desires, hormones, emotional baggage, addictions and our individual psychology. That's all I mean. And I don't think you would disagree that people do often make decisions based on these things.
The reformers (Thomas Cranmer in particular) had a great saying about human nature. They said: "What the heart DESIRES, the will CHOOSES, and the mind JUSTIFIES." In other words, it is our hearts that do the choosing. We simply do what we want. When we obey God it is because we "desire" to obey more than we "desire" to disobey. Notice the reformers are not saying that we don't have a will. . It’s just that our will is bound by our hearts. That’s why a lot of the prayers in the Anglican Church contain phrases like "incline our hearts, O lord".
Along these lines, the Bible talks a lot about our "hearts". I think this passage from Mark 7, bears quoting in full...
" Again Jesus called the crowd to him and said, “Listen to me, everyone, and understand this. 15 Nothing outside a person can defile them by going into them. Rather, it is what comes out of a person that defiles them.” [16] [f]
17 After he had left the crowd and entered the house, his disciples asked him about this parable. 18 “Are you so dull?” he asked. “Don’t you see that nothing that enters a person from the outside can defile them? 19 For it doesn’t go into their heart but into their stomach, and then out of the body.” (In saying this, Jesus declared all foods clean.)
20 He went on: “What comes out of a person is what defiles them. 21 For it is from within, out of a person’s heart, that evil thoughts come—sexual immorality, theft, murder, 22 adultery, greed, malice, deceit, lewdness, envy, slander, arrogance and folly. 23 All these evils come from inside and defile a person.”
Pt. 2
ReplyDeleteThough this passage is partially talking about dietary laws, Jesus is clear that the problem is people's hearts. He doesn't say that our hearts are bad based upon what we expose ourselves to or what we consume (be it violent video games or negative choices). The problem, according to Jesus, is deeper than that. The Psalmist cries out “Create in me a clean heart…”(Psalm 51:10)
So how is God not a cruel puppet master if we don’t have free will? Two things: 1. Because the Bible diagnoses us with a deeper problem than we think we have- a bound will and a heart that is warped by sin and 2. Because we were created to be dependent on him- so dependent that he is the author and finisher of our faith. He writes his faith into us.
St. Paul says it so clearly in his treatment of sin in the believer in Romans 7 and 8. When he describes his struggle with sin, the solution is not better choices. It is not making the tough decision for God’s will rather than our own.
Romans 7: 24 O wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death? 25 I thank God—through Jesus Christ our Lord!
When you talk about Jesus’ struggle in the garden and his choice, I won’t argue with you. He DID have free will. He was and is God. His will isn’t bound like ours. I dare say there ought to be limits on using Christ as an example to be followed. He is first and foremost our savior and redeemer. That’s not our job! I disagree with your statement that we are to “be as close to his example as possible”. I promise you aren’t called to die on the cross for the world’s sin.
If this is true, then what part do we play? When we are truly known and truly loved despite our sin, we naturally, spontaneously and joyfully follow the will of God. We can’t avoid it! It’s who we are. We love because he first loved us. The way a child loves her father and wants to please him. This isn’t duty or a painful decision to turn away from self will. When, in Paul’s letters, he tells us to resist the devil or sin, this is always following his reminding them of the gospel of God’s love for us. Our struggle is not between choosing good or bad. It’s between our brokenness and believing the gospel.
Pt. 3
ReplyDeleteThus, every Sunday we need to be reminded of the gospel. Of God’s love for us while we were yet sinners. This is truly good news because it is good news for every person anywhere in the world. Even those who are most in touch with suffering.
So again, why is this distinction important for helping people? Why have I written this effing Book of a comment?! Because of AA. Really AA.
I am not a member of AA but it has helped me wrap my mind around the issue of free will. When you really understand the depths of addiction any notion of free will is thrown out the window. What kind of free will does the addict, who has tried over and over again to get clean, really have? What kind of hope do they have for their struggle? A theology of free will has NOTHING to say to the addict or alcoholic or those struggling with any besetting sin. “Get your life together” and “make better choices” has no power to help them. They have tried again and again. In fact, for those that are truly in touch with their struggle, an exhortation to follow Christ’s example, far from being helpful or encouraging, is a death sentence. It can drive one to depression and running from the church- and from the cruel God that would sentence us to a life of eternal failure and judgment.
But wait, aren’t addicts a special case? Aren’t they especially burdened by sin in a way that “normal” people aren’t? The Bible doesn’t think so. Nor has Christianity-especially before the Enlightenment. The concept of idolatry is pervasive throughout the bible. We make idols out of almost everything. The 20th and 21st century description of idolatry is addiction. We are addicted to food, drugs, Facebook, sex, money, Facebook, control, and did I mention Facebook? In short we are all addicted to sin. Paul discusses it all the time and Romans 7:13-24 is the best description of addiction to sin I’ve ever read! We are all addicted to sin.
If we are honest we have tried over and over again to fix ourselves. We have read self-help books. We have read spiritual how-to books. My favorite New Yorker cartoon shows a man walking into a bookstore and on the left is a section called “self-help” and on the right is a section called “beyond help”. The man looks at the self-help section and makes a bee-line for the “beyond help” section! The problem is that no amount of positive thinking or good decision making or effort on our parts can solve our eternal problem of addition to sin.
Pt. 4
ReplyDeleteWhat we need is a savior. We need a new heart. How do we get a new heart? By constantly being reminded of the Good news of the gospel. Being reminded that we can rest. That we are loved even as we fail to improve or choose the will of God. When Addicted people, aware of their brokenness, are told that they are loved despite their brokenness- that they aren’t being judged- that they don’t have to climb a ladder of sanctification- an amazing thing happens. They get better. This is the message of AA and the church can learn a lot from it.
But we don’t want to hear this. We don’t want to hear that we are all addicts. We don’t want to hear that we aren’t in charge of our lives- of our decisions. We don’t want to hear that we can stop striving for excellence. We’re Americans dammit! We take responsibility for our actions. We don’t need to be dependent on anyone!
I think that what people need is to hear the good news of Gods goodness and love despite our inability to make good decisions and their lack of free will. I know that I will never convince even one person by argument but I hope that you can, at least, understand where I am coming from. If you disagree with me, that means you are probably grasping what I am saying. That is our innate and natural response. There are dozens of historical books and biblical commentaries I could reference to substantiate my claims- and feel free to ask for book recommendations. But, again, the only way I’ve seen people gasp this is by watching them live life under the law of modern American Christianity and be broken by it. But thanks be to God, he is always there and his gospel of grace- even for Christians.
That is quite the lengthy comment. I appreciate the hard work.
ReplyDeleteAnd it is very interesting that you would mention AA. I know AA very well. I myself struggled with severe drug and alcohol addictions but I think you are getting free will and will power confused. While AA, NA, HA have there place, there is a major downfall with this mindset. That - mindset. It keeps the mind in the past, tied to his/her history of addictions and failures. It labels itself by its "illness." And claims that it will always be a presence in the person's life and they will never break free of its grasp. They must learn to deal with it. That is keeping one bound in chains. That is bondage.
And if you have faith at all in God, then you would have to know that he is omnipotent and as you, yourself said, only He can change hearts. Well that's exactly what He sent His Son here to do - to set the captives free. That is freedom from addictions but also freedom from anything that keeps a person bound to their past.
What you describe as an inherent dark spirit is a generational curse. That is a type of spiritual genetic coding that can be passed down through the family to the next generation. It is in fact a curse. But Jesus came to redeem us from that curse and that can be broken along with the addiction cycle. However, the Holy Spirit has to be involved. This is a powerful process and cannot be achieved through reasoning or words or saying or writing, it must be experienced.
What is truly missing in all understanding of the freedom that comes with the healing power of God is the power of the Holy Spirit. A good read may be "The God I never knew"
I, and many many others near and dear to me, have been delivered through this healing power. It is the most joyous experience I can ever describe.
When delivered fully through God's healing power, once can speak of the past and freedom from it without any chains binding. Without the fear of falling off the wagon, without the desire to do drugs again when the opportunity arises.
For again, when we (our flesh) is weak, there is one much stronger than us - residing in us. There is a power far greater than ourselves welling up on the inside.
Also this powerful healing changes our heart, breaks the curse over our lives and sets us on a new course. It allows the person to truly become a "new creation."
It is this that gives us and the addict hope - not the continual daily struggle of defeating a sickness that the person will never be free of... That's horrifying, in my opinion.
But you must understand as in all my writings I clarify, I am very anti-religion. Just as Jesus was. Christianity is a relationship with the Father not a religion or reasoning of thought or doctrine. I write what the Lord puts on my heart about my experiences and the freedom that I have gained from it.
I am not writing to an AA class, although I am studying to begin working with such groups. My writings are about what my Father has done for me and now what I am doing in return.
Jesus said, "those who have been forgiven much, love much. And those who have been forgiven little, love little." I have been forgiven much - over and over again. I am willing to do anything and everything I can to see the advancement of His kingdom on this earth so that His will be done on this earth as it is in heaven.
ReplyDeleteIt is Religion who has created the escape mentality of struggling through this life only in hopes of another greater one in the next - eternal life.
That again, takes all responsibility from this person in this life.
Religion is bound by the law, Christ came to redeem us from the CURSE of the law. The law kills but the spirit gives us life. His Holy Spirit was given as our guide, our helper who walks us through this life in a grandiose way.
I am not telling people with or without addictions that they have to work for their salvation. No, I'm telling them that there is so much more than salvation when you receive Christ into your heart. That you become translated out of the kingdom of darkness into the kingdom of the dear Son. And this is where the wonderment of life can be found!!!! The only call is for salvation. BUT, once you are forgiven, once you feel the love, every fiber in your being should make you want to lay down your will, your life, for the Father's will. That's what I was writing about in this blog. God had truly delivered me and now He was asking me to do something for Him. There was no doubt it was one of the biggest struggles of my life. He is such a gentle God, He took care of me each and every day until I accepted the call.
I find so much joy writing and studying His Word, that I just do it for myself. I always pray that the one person who needs to hear this or that will read it, but this is just my worship to My Father. I write after I worship with Him in the mornings.
This particular morning I was thinking about all Jesus had done and did do for me and how something so trivial on my end was so difficult. Leaving my life behind in the mountains was truly one of the most difficult things I've ever done. I know it will all be for His glory. But in it He blesses me every day. He is definitely a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him. Hebrews 11:6
I enjoy sharing my trials and tribulations with others in hopes that they will understand if and when they arrive at this crossroads. Many are called BUT few are chosen. God knows our hearts and He knows who is willing to do the work He's called them to do. To say that we don't struggle with it would be a lie. And to say He overthrows our free will would make us slaves. I am not a slave. In fact, I have never known more freedom in my life.
I will have to disagree and say that Jesus is not the only man with free will. He came in the flesh as a man to show us that this life CAN be lived by a man totally dependent on God . He is our living example and we are His living epistles.
ReplyDeleteOne of my favorite scriptures is 2 Corin 3:2
You yourselves are our letter, written on our hearts, known and read by everyone.
We are indeed called to be like Him.
We are made in God's image and God clearly states, "And we all, who with unveiled faces contemplate the Lord's glory, are being transformed into his image with ever-increasing glory, which comes from the Lord, who is the Spirit. " 2 Corinthians 3:18
That is the whole point of this blog. Understanding that we are to be transfigured, learning to become as Jesus.
"And as we live in God, our love grows more perfect. So we will not be afraid on the day of judgment, but we can face him with confidence because we live like Jesus here in this world." 1 John 4:17
We are called to submit our will, die to self, listen to our Father's words - speak and do as He says and we are called to love unconditionally just as Jesus.
This would be absolutely impossible without the Holy Spirit, but He was given to us when Jesus left this earth. He guides us in our studies, He gives us ears to hear and eyes to see "What the spirit of the Lord is saying to the church (us)." Rev.2:29
When we move into this spiritual realm with a relationship with the Father and release our minds from reason and indoctrination, we can actually GROW.
Jesus spoke to the Pharisees regarding how they honored him with their lips and traditions but their hearts were far from him. They worshiped him in vain and honored him with their rules. Matthew 5:9-11
Jesus isn't looking for people who to keep a set of rules or commands. He is looking for people who will proclaim what He said in Luke 4:21, "This day the scriptures are fulfilled in your ears." That was the good news, the gospel, that people are now set free. That His "finished" work on the cross is just that finished. That we can now come to him knowing we can receive healing, deliverance, peace, joy and unconditional love. And what we can receive, we can freely give.
I hope you will continue reading and commenting. :) This life is truly "our best life NOW" but the next one will be far greater. May God's will be done on THIS earth as it is in heaven!!!! May you truly be blessed and experience greater joy, freedom, love and peace than you have ever known.
Its so great what God has done in your life. You have such a great testimony. I'll only say a couple brief things and then I’ll shut up! (for now)
ReplyDelete"And we all, who with unveiled faces contemplate the Lord's glory, are being transformed into his image with ever-increasing glory, which comes from the Lord, who is the Spirit." 2 Corinthians 3:18. This describes a passive process (“are being transformed”) that does not imply our doing anything. And it’s one thing to be "transformed into his image" and another to wear a WWJD bracelet and feel like I can mess up the development of Gods Kingdom. Read Jesus’ Parables in Mathew 13. They all indicate that God’s kingdom is coming whether we (or the evil one) try to, bring it about, mess it up or do nothing at all.
And while we are looking at Corinthians...though the Spirit inspires scripture, The Apostle Paul wrote the letter. The same apostle who is responsible for the establishment and spread of the CHURCH to the gentiles. Unless you are willing to throw out Acts and Paul’s epistles, you can’t deny that Jesus apostles founded a real church. We are called to be a community and test our ideas against the scripture and the wisdom of others.
While I agree that Christianity is about a relationship with God and not some plan to appease or align ourselves with God. It is not at all clear that Jesus was "anti-religion". He was anti-distorted religion. He was against the Pharisees who added their own rules and laws. This is a serious distinction. He fully upheld the Judaism of his people, knew it back and forth and quoted it. He even interpreted his role in light of the religion and prophets- of his religion.
In short, although I am glad that you are getting messages from God, I would encourage you to test them against the history of Christian thought and the Christian community. Many of the concepts that you speak about have been brought up and addressed by the church over 2000 years- tested against the scriptures by people with much better knowledge of them than you or me. Read Augustine, Luther, Cranmer-even Aquinas and you will be amazed at what you find. Test what you read in Wigglesworth against them.
I just think it is a good idea that we look at what over 90 percent of Christian history has experienced, studied, fought over and died for before putting our own experience forward as authoritative- even if you believe they are only authoritative for you. Please don’t take my word for it.
And as for your thoughts on AA. The beauty of AA is that it allows us to be truly honest about our condition and live in a dependent relationship on God for sobriety. I can’t think of anything more Christian than that. I don’t know anyone who works the steps in AA who has a “continual daily struggle” that you speak of. I am so happy that you have been relieved of your struggle with drugs, but I won’t judge the millions who haven't had their miracle yet as just not accepting their miracle. That, to me, is cruel.
ReplyDeleteMuch of this depends on the theological distinction between imputed righteousness and infused righteousness. Another term worth looking up is “plagiarism” or “semi-pelagianism.” I bring this up to show you that many of these ideas have been brought up in the past and-with scripture as a guide- been settled by the orthodox church.
And one last thing about the bound will. You wrote: "And to say He overthrows our free will would make us slaves."
I never said he overthrew our free will. I said we never had free will in the first place. That’s a huge distinction! Our will is always bound. We always serve a master. I am saying that only a sacrificial love like that of Jesus' on the cross, can turn our will toward God from our idols. Is it slavery to serve the one you love? No. Its a joy! You are like a little girl lost in the gaze of her father. You aren't in control. You are in love and would do anything for him. Your will is bound to him. Does that look like slavery? This is true relationship. Serving out of love and not out of duty. I hope you understand what I am saying and why it isn’t all puppets and slaves.
Finally, here are a few books I can recommend if you ever have any interest in learning about how 2 millennia of Christian study and discernment has addressed the issues we have been discussing:
Grace in Addiction- John Z
Bondage of the Will- Martin Luther
On Being a Theologian of the Cross- Gerhard Forde
Grace in Practice- Paul Zahl
Kingdom, Grace, Judgment- Robert Capon
One Way Love- Tullian Tchividjian
Thomas Cranmer’s Doctrine of Repentance- Ashley Null
Martin Luther’s Commentary on Galatians
The Prodigal God- Tim Keller
Christless Christianity- Michael Horton
The Cruelty of Heresy- Fitzsimmons Allison
Just a few more things:
ReplyDeleteMaybe I should mention that I attended private school kindegarten through high school. I attended a Methodist kindergarten, Baptist elementary, Church of Christ junior high school and Presbyterian high school.
Each denomination came with its own interpretation of the Law and each abided by its own man made set of rules. Each organization thought their denomination was superior to the others.
This is a man-made systems in action. Man is based out of mind. Man can only thrive through ego. The ego has to be the biggest and/or the best to survive. The ego has to segregate and divide to keep control. The ego cannot live outside of reason because it is there that all control is lost.
Hence, survival of the fittest.
But this is not at all how the kingdom of God works.
God's system is based on humility and relinquishing control to Him. Meaning, let go of your mind and reason and experience Him with your heart and spirit.
As Jesus said in Matthew 20:16 "So the last will be first, and the first will be last."
Let me explain how I got here:
I narrowly escaped the condemnation of the "ministry of death." (2 Corin 3:7)
I owe that all to the strong teachings from my Holy Spirit filled, Bible reading, tongue talking, holy roller, nondenominational family. Just so you can understand the seriousness of it all, I read the Bible in its entirety for the first time when I was in 6th grade.
God was all I knew.
Before even beginning elementary school my dad wisely instructed me, there will always be one thing missing in all your education in these schools. Most teachings will be void of the Holy Spirit. Religion is based on reason and theology. It is man's interpretation of God's Word. God's word cannot be reasoned, we know that. Reasoning limits an all powerful God. Religion looks to man for God, never do this for man will fail you every time. Only look to Jesus for God, He will never fail you.
That stuck with me through all the muck and Mire teachings. That gave me a ray of hope throughout all the teachings of condemnation and the fire and fury of a tough controlling God.
But I knew the Truth. I knew Who He really was as I had learned to develop a relationship with Him since I was old enough to speak. (It's the same with my nieces now! They know God better than most anyone I know and they are 3 and 7 yrs old.)
However, through years of watching hypocrisy and Christians hiding behind masks, I slowly lost site of my parental teachings and rather began looking to man. Unknowingly, I developled a strong distaste for Christians. I wanted to be far removed from their system of lies and condemnation. So I pulled away from God, I wasn't bound to Him.
What I did discover was that He was bound to me.
Just as I watch my nieces in their relationshiop with God, it is so easy to see that they do not have a bound will but a much freeer will than I do. They choose to love God now in their innocence the same that I did. But as I grew older and honestly colder, I decided I didn't want to do as I had always been taught, I didn't want to be labeled as a hypocritical Christian and Iwanted to test all that I had learned and most and foremost, I wanted to find God on my own.
My whole life I had always known God, but I wanted to know life without Him. A bound will cannot do that.
A relationship is a two way street. A father does not force his daughter's love, a daughter loves her father bc that is how she is taught. He is her caretaker, confidant and provider.
This is still a choice. Most children have horrible fathers and they do not have love for them, even in their innocence.
The relationship that you described earlier would be a one way relationship. If a person has a bound will to someone it is the same as a pre-arranged marriage. In the minds of this couple, even without ever beginning the relationship, they feel bound and in a place of servitude to someone they did not chose. I knew many such people in undergrad as I was surrounded by many middle Easterners. They spoke of their misery even before it ever took place. It caused them to rebel in fear of what lied ahead for their future.
ReplyDeleteIf we had a bound will to the Father then we would be His muse. He would not have left the Holy Spirit to guide us and He would not constantly speak of seeking Him in His word. We would not need any of that if we were bound and predestined.
Jesus would not have had to pray for the disciples protection in John 17 if their steps were ordered and understood. He would not have had to pray for them to stay strong and keep the faith, as He would already know what the outcome would be.
I left God to ensure I was not bound. He allowed that. He has to. Otherwise, we would be puppets. But as I say in my book, God will never leave us, it is only us who will leave Him. It took me almost 20 years of living my life on my own and many hardships, one of which was my addictions. I asked Him to deliver me, it was a situation in which there could never be a natural explanation. No it was not natural, He delivered me on supernatural lines and translated me out of the kingdom of darkness into the kingdom of His dear Son. And I will never leave again. I will never go backwards. There is nothing anyone can convince a person of when they have experienced the real thing. There is no book, or man or teaching or religion or theologian or scholar who could ever tell me anything about my God absent of what I have experienced. This type of relationship is an intimate one. It is the same as with a lover. No one will know my lover in the way that I do.
That's how we were meant to be with God. We are meant to have such a close relationship with Him that we can stand any test or trial or persecution because we know the one we are with will never let us go.
This type of relationship is described in Revelations 12:11
They triumphed over him (the evil one) by the blood of the Lamb and by the word of their testimony; they did not love their lives so much as to shrink from death."
God loves us each in the way that we understand and communicates with each of us in the way we understand.
The only way to know God is to to seek Him.
You will seek me and find me when you seek me with all your heart. Jeremiah 29:13
We don't seek someone we are predestined to be with, no we seek someone we are in love with, someone we choose.
This scripture can clarify the fact that theology can never understand God.
ReplyDelete"But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned . 1 Corinthians 2:14"
Here we can see that most religious teachings are missing the third part of the trinity. The gift, guide, helper who was left here for us when Jesus was resurrected.
But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all the truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come." John 16:13
It is impossible to understand what is only spiritually discerned without the Holy Spirit. It is impossible to take part of kingdom living that I teach without the Holy Spirit. That is why my teachings are not for the religious person. The religious person is behind a veil, it must be lifted to understand these things as they are only spiritually discerned.
This is why religion suffers again as I said before "they honor me with their lips and traditions, but their heart is far from me."- in the words of Jesus
We cannot get close to the heart of God through our mind, only through our hearts. We must release our thoughts and experience Him. This is why I love working with people with addictions. Once they are delivered in the way that I have been, they know. There is nothing that can get between them and God. There is no word or book or man or teaching that can separate them from the love of the one who set them free.
Jesus himself said "we must become as little children to enter the kingdom of heaven."
How many scholars do you know believe this? How many scholars do you know who can put their mind, their ego aside and call on the Almighty God for help?
I'm a woman and even I never thought I would see the day that I would be on my knees crying out for help. How much harder do you think it is for a man? Especially a man who has built his world around his ideas.
No, sad to say that most people never come to know God in this manner. It is usually only when a person is fully broken that he/she can become like a helpless child again. This brokenness brings them to the end of self, the end of ego. This is the point when most people can truly receive the love of the Father. When "self" is dying or has died.
The LORD is close to the brokenhearted and saves those who are crushed in spirit." Ps 34:18
This was when I relinquished my will.
My sacrifice, O God, is a broken spirit; a broken and contrite heart you, God, will not despise. Psalm 51:177
Religion puts self first. It is all about doing and works and pleasing and appeasing. It is all out of the law. The same with AA and NA. The person is taught that through a series of steps their life can be different. But again, they must not stray from these steps. And if you are attending AA meetings where the opening sentence of almost every attendee is not saying "today is another day and I've made it another 24 hours and still sober. " then praise God you are going to an excellent AA group. But in the natural sense of most of these organizations are based on self and mind and will power along with a series of do's and don'ts make up the recovery process.
ReplyDeleteWhile this may work wonders for some, for others it puts them into a constant struggle of fear of failure. Fear that they may not uphold the law. Fear that they may use again. Fear that they may have to start it all again.
Instead of having total reliance on God and His ability and strength, the person relies on self, mind and will power and that creates the daily struggle.We are human, we will undoubtedly fail but when we put our trust in God, we know He will never fail us.
AA's system is one of behavior modification rather than inner spiritual transformation that can only be accomplished through God and the Holy Spirit.
The same is true with religion. When we put our trust in man and his interpretations, they will fail us but when we put our trust in God the one who made the whole system and listen only to His Word, it will not fail bc He faileth us not!
People just don't understand the amount of fear these systems have them bound to. The fear comes when we depend on ourselves or another man made system rather than God. When we depend on God we can be fear - less.
For God has not given us a spirit of fear and timidity, but of power, love, and self-discipline. 1 Timothy 1:7
And just as you spoke of idols, an idol meaning anything that we exalt above God, you must be aware this includes exalting MAN and man's ideas and theologies above God's.
One of my favorite scriptures clearly states we should
"Cast down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;" 2 Corin 10:5
That means everything.
Everything everyone says that exalts itself above God's Word.
These books that you've listed are all men who are interpreting God's Word and might I add, void of spiritual understanding.
It is a reasoned word.
The only book that will never exalt itself above the knowledge of God is His Word, The Holy Bible. It's the only book I recommend. ;)
This my dear friend is how we test books against scripture. Does it exalt itself above the knowledge of God. It does not take a scholar or years of studying to understand scripture, it takes a guide. The spirit of God, the Holy Spirit is the only discerner of God's Word. That is all we need! Without Him we are just lowly bookworms, reading and studying and processing through our own perceptions the very Words of God.
But with Him,we can know all that God has disclosed through His Word, we can truly know the heart of God! We can possess all the gifts of the spirit, just a few are the gift of knowledge, wisdom and discernment.
Without Him we are minds struggling. With Him we can understand through our spirit which is how we were created. Without him we are fighting against our flesh following the law. With Him we can live a life of freedom.
"Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom. " 2 Corin 3:17
And back to this scripture :
ReplyDeleteAnd we all, who with unveiled faces contemplate the Lord's glory, are being transformed into his image with ever-increasing glory, which comes from the Lord, who is the Spirit. 2 Corin 3:18
Notice -unveiled faces- that is life in the Spirit, not one lived under the law.
We cannot understand God with veiled faces.
"And when Jesus had cried out again in a loud voice, he gave up his spirit. (GAVE UP)
And behold, the veil of the temple was torn in two from top to bottom; and the earth shook and the rocks were split." Matt 27:50-51
This is the veil of Religion in the temple where the animal sacrifices were made for each sin.
In fact, we can't even worship Jehovah with veiled faces. We must be in the Spirit.
"God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in the Spirit and in truth." John 4:24
As you mentioned before you said this transformation is a passive process but again I will have to disagree. We are not being transformed because we are Christians. No this life again is not a cake walk. Let's see what God says about how we transform:
"Do not conform to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Then you will be able to test and approve what God's will is--his good, pleasing and perfect will."
If this were a passive life everyone would be doing it. No it's a very active process and the only way to transform is by renewing our mind with God's Word! Not man's word or interpretation thereof.
We must be in God's Word to know His perfect will.
Transforming is active, this life is a choice and no doubt it takes work. The finished work has been completed, again all we need is Jesus and the Holy Spirit but to step into a much more fulfilled life we must get close to the heart of God. The only way to do that is to spend time with Him and His Word.
I know you said Jesus wasn't against all religion and that He even upheld Judaism. I will have to disagree.
Jesus was sent as the new covenant. The scripture says it was a better covenant. He came to show that no human could uphold the law. The only man who could do so was Jesus.
God sent Him to us as grace, to replace an impossible system that instilled fear and condemnation and only resulted in rebellion.
To say Jesus upheld the laws of Judaism is not even possible.
Jesus preached and healed Gentiles- that alone was breaking the law.
You showed the scripture in which he spoke against eating koshe.
He also taught on the Sabbath and continued to preach and heal and deliver anyone and everyone who wanted it.
He really shook up the law when He spoke against stoning the adulterous woman. He showed no one could uphold the law.
"Let he who has no sin, cast the first stone."
No one can be sinless or free from condemnation under the law. The only freedom comes through Grace - Jesus' finished work on the cross and living a life in the Spirit.
Religion teaches the law. All religion puts mans ideas before God's.
Jesus said, "No servant can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. You cannot serve God and mam." Luke 16:13
We cannot serve God and ourselves, or our thoughts, or other men's thoughts, or even other men's opinions.
We have to make a choice:
God consciousness or Self consciousness
I don't expect this to make much sense to you and I don't expect to persuade you. That is not my goal for this blog. This blog is a form of worship to my lover, my God. A calling forth of His Kingdom here on this earth and in the process opening eyes and bringing freedom to any ears that CAN hear and any eyes that CAN see.
This kingdom life is one of victory.
Whoever has ears, let them hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To the one who is victorious, I will give the right to eat from the tree of life, which is in the paradise of God." Rev 2:7
First of all, I have to thank you for your willingness to have this conversation. I appreciate your strong faith. Also, though I disagree strongly with many of the fundamental aspects of your perspective, I agree with a lot of what you say. I really like what you say about not living under the law. I love how well you understand Jesus’ discontinuity with the twisted religion that was second temple Judaism. You may describe things differently than I would, but in many cases we are talking about the same thing from different perspectives.
ReplyDeleteFor instance, what you describe as freely choosing to love God, doesn’t look anything like choice to me. In your description I see someone who experienced the love of God, and has been drawn to him ever since. I can see how it might feel like choice from your perspective but from mine it looks like your will is bound to his. Joyously! At the core of this discussion is a distinction in perspectives. And, in humility, I have come to accept that what might feel like autonomous choice in the moment, is actually something much deeper and stronger. Think of these two examples…
In your struggle with drugs, did it not feel like you had free choice to use or not use them for a long time…until it was too late? I hear this over and over again from addicts. They thought they had it under control, they could drop the habit whenever they wanted. They believed that like anything else in their life they could take it or leave it. The consequences hit and they tried to stop. The only had an illusion of control, of freedom, of choice. As a friend once told me “Sure alcoholics have free choice. They can choose between beer, whiskey and vodka. The only choice they don’t have is not to drink!”
Here’s another example from something you wrote about. Love. When people fall in love and get married do they typically make a list of pro’s and con’s about their potential spouse? Do people create charts and graphs to determine what they can rationally get out of the relationship before they fall in love? Obviously not. Falling in love isn’t a choice. We may choose to describe it that way because we have invested ourselves in the idea of free will, but that doesn’t make it free.
The truth is, if you and I were given 10 verses from scripture, we would come up with 10 completely different explanations of their meaning and application. This is because we have fundamentally different perspectives on human nature. In truth, we all have a theology. Your theology is the filter through which you interpret scripture. I could show you a verse and with a good amount of certainty, predict how you would explain its application because you have already told me about some of your core beliefs: Free will, a low view of human reason (which we share, by the way), an intimate relationship with God, A reliance on Holy Spirit led understanding of the scripture, and active role in bringing about the kingdom, etc. This is part of your filter. I have one too. If you don’t think you have a filter then I can stop right now, buy your book, and never look to another source for spiritual guidance.
This is why I believe it is important to have a proper hermeneutic when reading scripture. We have to avoid Proof-texting: choosing verses that’s seem to back our position even though the larger context might not support it. If there are more accurate or less accurate ways to read the Bible, wouldn’t it make sense that we seek the better way? Historic Christianity, especially Protestantism, has held that the scripture interprets itself with the guidance of the Holy Spirit. Meaning that understanding the Bible requires knowing the type of book your are reading and viewing it in light of other parts of the bible-especially its immediate context. And it is the Holy Spirit that guides us in this discernment! Do you honestly think that people who, in humility because of the awareness of their personal filter, seek the Holy Spirit’s guidance as they read the scriptures in context are “behind a veil”?
You ask: How many scholars do you know believe this [That we must become like Children]? How many scholars do you know who can put their mind, their ego aside and call on the Almighty God for help?
ReplyDeleteMy answer: Lots of them! And I do know some scholars!
Can’t you see that you have a different idea of what Jesus meant by becoming like little children than they do? Can you see that that is even possible? This is what’s scary about people who feel like they have only interpretation of a verse, yet can only appeal to spiritual guidance to support it. What if those that disagree with you appeal to claim that the Holy Spirit was guiding them? Are they just wrong? Can you completely dismiss them as ignorant, man-made rule-following, behind a veil, egotists?
I think you have set up a false dichotomy between using our brains and trusting the Holy Spirit.
What’s crazy is that the same scriptures you quote to substantiate your Holy Spirit led discernment (1 Corinthians 2:14, John 16:13, 2 Cor 10:5, etc) can be just as easily be used to explain your teaching from another perspective. “Scholars” can and do claim that they seek the Holy Spirit’s guidance, and that you don’t agree/understand because you are the “natural man.”
Again when you wrote: “And just as you spoke of idols, an idol meaning anything that we exalt above God, you must be aware this includes exalting MAN and man's ideas and theologies above God's.” Many in the Christian world would be tempted to think that putting man’s ideas and theologies above God’s is exactly what you are doing with your teachings. Do you see what I mean? We can quote scripture all day to substantiate our teachings. But anyone can find scriptures to justify something they want to promote.
I’ll agree entirely that religion can, has, and will continue to- at times and places- add “man-made” laws etc. to the Christian faith. I’m a huge fan of the Reformation! But is that a reason to dismiss the ministry of someone- just because they went to seminary?
I won’t go into it any more here, but I do think you have a misunderstanding of AA and the 12 steps. If you haven’t I’d recommend reading Alcoholics Anonymous and the 12 steps and 12 Traditions. Also, Grace in Addiction is a great book to understand the relationship of Christianity and AA.
Finally, when you wrote: “These books that you've listed are all men who are interpreting God's Word and might I add, void of spiritual understanding.”
Two things:
1. If you DON’T think you are also interpreting God’s word, you are deluded. It is the height of ignorance (and arrogance) to think that the words you write are a pure and God-breathed extension of his scriptures guided by his Holy Spirit alone- apart from any interpretation. I hope you don’t believe this.
2. I’ve never seen anything more arrogant said about a book you haven’t read by an author you don’t know. How are you supposed to be credible when you say something like this? Some of those books were written by friends of mine that have incredibly deep faith and I truly believe their writing IS guided by the Holy Spirit. How would you feel if I said that about your book?
I hope that we both might be willing to see things from another perspective. I hope that I have taken the time to seriously consider your ideas and not just used them as springboard to respond with my own. I pray that we will both take the time to question our assumptions about human nature and the way God works in the world. And I’ll pray that anyone who reads your teachings does the same.